If this is sandbagging, it may be the best-ever case of it

[AlwaysWrite]

[Even though this deals with bowling and therefore belongs in the Bowler's Lounge section, I'm also posting it here so that more people will see it.]

I haven't had a chance to check into the details yet, but I just got the updated results of the Florida State Open Tournament, and I'll simply provide some FACTS and let you judge for yourself.

BOWLER A: PRESTON WILLIS

* carried 186 junior-league average in 2001-02
* averaged 197 in first year of adult leagues (2002-03)
* carried 200+ (and usually far over 200) from 2003-04 to 2011-12
* In 2007-08 had averages of 233, 230, 225, 224 and 224
* In 2010-11, had 228 for 18 games, but official yearbook of 205
* In 2011-12, had 214 for 9 games, 210 for 18 games and official yearbook of 163
* In 2012-13, had yearbook average of 118
* sat out 2013-14 season
* averaged 102 for 39 games in youth-adult league in 2014-15

BOWLER B: TONY KORMANSEK

* carried yearbook averages between 196 and 206 every season but one from 2002-03 to 2011-12.
* had yearbook average of 131 in 2012-13
* sat out 2013-14 season
* averaged 102 for 51 games in youth-adult league in 2014-15

So along comes the state tournament ...

* Willis and Kormansek take handicap doubles lead by 155 pins with score of 1,740.
* Willis takes handicap all-events lead by 158-pin margin with 2,578.
* Kormansek is runner-up in handicap all-events with 2,420. (Previous leader had 2,354).
* Their team is third in handicap team at 3,648, just 14 pins off the top score posted by Lodge Lanes (which includes such top players as Vernon Peterson and John Janawicz).
* Willis is fourth in handicap singles with 833 (11 from the top score of 844) and Kormansek is tied for fifth at 825.

Is anyone suspicious?

 

[bbfreeburn]

One does wonder, were the low averages due to injury? and sitting out a season also? Did they change hands?
BUT, very suspicious. It's almost too obvious to be real sandbagging. BUt............

 

[AlwaysWrite]

One does wonder, were the low averages due to injury? and sitting out a season also? Did they change hands?
BUT, very suspicious. It's almost too obvious to be real sandbagging. BUt............

Dear bbfreeburn:

That's why I worded the headline the way I did and simply presented the facts (as I know them) without comment, because I'm not aware as to whether there are any injuries involved. However, I will say that it's extremely unlikely that BOTH bowlers would have suffered average-dropping injuries at exactly the same time, sat out a season and then established 102 averages in the same junior-adult league ... and THEN just happened to bowl together in the state tournament.

 

[MI2AZ]

You should post this on other bowling sites too.

 

[AlwaysWrite]

You should post this on other bowling sites too.

Dear MI2AZ:

Thank you, but I already have done so.

 

[AlwaysWrite]

To put some of the numbers in perspective, in order to win handicap doubles, a pair of 230-average players wouldn't win if one of the partners rolled a 900 series and the other rolled 786. And to win handicap all-events, a 230-average player would have to average 277.5.

For a 200-average player to win handicap all-events, it would take a 250.5 average, and for a pair of 200-average players to win handicap doubles, they'd have to roll 800 and 725 (or average more than 254 between them).

[For the record, there is scratch competition in each event, but ALL entrants MUST enter the handicap competition.]

 

[9andaWiggle]

Way to throw in that 900 score to be more dramatic. All it would take is 844 each (a mere 281.33 per game) to win. On today's wall with today's high powered equipment and lightweight pins, that should be a walk in the park for a 230 avg. player!

I mean, come on... 281, why that's practically 1 missed strike per game we're giving each of them!

 

[AlwaysWrite]

Way to throw in that 900 score to be more dramatic. All it would take is 844 each (a mere 281.33 per game) to win. On today's wall with today's high powered equipment and lightweight pins, that should be a walk in the park for a 230 avg. player!

I mean, come on... 281, why that's practically 1 missed strike per game we're giving each of them!

... but to average 281, that "missed strike" better be in the first frame or the second ball in the tenth.

 

[9andaWiggle]

True, but you're acting like the 'cappers aren't even giving them a chance! lol

 

[AlwaysWrite]

True, but you're acting like the 'cappers aren't even giving them a chance! lol

Dear 9andaWiggle:

In a case that DIDN'T involve either of these two bowlers, in the same state tournament a few years back, a bowler posted a handicap score of 933 in singles, and with the handicap then based on 90 percent of 230, a bowler with an average of 218 or higher couldn't win, EVEN IF HE/SHE ROLLED 900 SCRATCH. And a 200 bowler would have had to roll at least 820 to win.

 

[9andaWiggle]

Hmmm... it appears that sandbagging is not policed, punished, nor prevented very well in that tournament.

I've always thought a handicap score should stop at 300 per game, and resets next game. IMO, it is unfair for handicap to allow one bowler to score more than the maximum score of the game. Handicap is meant to "level the playing field", but swings too far the other way when a scratch bowler can not at least tie with a perfect game.

It's not likely to happen very often, but IMO it's not right to have a situation where one competitor could never miss a shot and still be declared the loser.

 

[MI2AZ]

300 and 900 should be the maximum scores allowed.

 

[AlwaysWrite]

300 and 900 should be the maximum scores allowed.

Dear MI2AZ:

I agree ... but do you really think that a tournament would adopt such provision into its rules? I haven't seen a similar rule yet. And such should apply to handicap leagues as well. There is no way that a bowler should be able to roll a perfect game and LOSE to a handicap score.

 

[Good Times Good Times]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (entire thread)

Why I bowl scratch events (for the majority of tournaments).....

 

[AlwaysWrite]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (entire thread)

Why I bowl scratch events (for the majority of tournaments).....

Dear Good Times Good Times:

I, too, always much preferred scratch competition (tournaments and leagues), but since the 1980s, most of the scratch leagues and tournaments disappeared from the scene -- in my area, at least.

 

[RealJorge300]

Not the first time something like this has happened....now this is going back many years but there was a pretty big handicap tournament in PA called "The Dutchman". It was a team, singles/doubles event. Same type of set-up, everyone is in handicap and could enter scratch if you wanted. The last year I bowled in it (which would have been 1999, so many years ago like I said), we walked in saw the high handicap series was 913. So most of my teammates, and myself could not win singles as we got no handicap. I believe the tournament has since changed the rules to make 900 the highest possible score, but still. You walk in and know you can't miss a single strike in order to just tie for first. Something just not right about that.

 

[AlwaysWrite]

Not the first time something like this has happened....now this is going back many years but there was a pretty big handicap tournament in PA called "The Dutchman". It was a team, singles/doubles event. Same type of set-up, everyone is in handicap and could enter scratch if you wanted. The last year I bowled in it (which would have been 1999, so many years ago like I said), we walked in saw the high handicap series was 913. So most of my teammates, and myself could not win singles as we got no handicap. I believe the tournament has since changed the rules to make 900 the highest possible score, but still. You walk in and know you can't miss a single strike in order to just tie for first. Something just not right about that.

Dear RealJorge300:

It certainly isn't the first time that something like this has happened. Not too many years ago in the same tournament (Florida state), a bowler posted a handicap singles score of 933, meaning that any bowler with a 218 average or better couldn't have won, EVEN HAD THEY ROLLED A 900 SERIES.

 

[WAMO]

DONT ALL TOURNYS HAVE A LINE IN THE RULES THAT SAYS, TOURNY DIRECTOR(S) HAVE THE FINAL SAY? IF THEY PAID OUT THEN...?

 

[AlwaysWrite]

DONT ALL TOURNYS HAVE A LINE IN THE RULES THAT SAYS, TOURNY DIRECTOR(S) HAVE THE FINAL SAY? IF THEY PAID OUT THEN...?

... but tournament directors can't have a "final say" that would be in opposition to the tournament and/or USBC rules.

 

[WAMO]

ANY BOWLER CAN BE DISQUALIFIED.