Police Officer Fired For Not Killing Man

MI2AZ

Active Member
In an odd case out of West Virginia, a police officer has been fired for not shooting a man. Authorities in Weirton say police officer Stephen Mader risked the lives of other officers when he failed to shoot a man holding a gun on May 6. Ronald D. Williams Jr.'s girlfriend had called 911 claiming Williams was threatening to kill himself, and when Mader arrived at the scene, "he had a gun, but it was not pointed at me," he tells the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. "I told him, 'Put down the gun,' and he's like, 'Just shoot me.' And I told him, 'I'm not going to shoot you brother.' Then he starts flicking his wrist to get me to react to it," the former Marine adds. "I thought I was going to be able to talk to him and deescalate it. I knew it was a suicide-by-cop" attempt.

Instead, one of two other officers who then arrived fatally shot Williams, 23, in the back of the head as he walked toward the officers waving the gun, later found to be unloaded. A state police investigation determined the shooting was justified and Mader agrees it was. But he doesn't agree with the city's decision to fire him a month later. His notice of termination claims he "failed to eliminate a threat," and in separate incidents, swore at a woman, and failed to determine that the death of an elderly woman, who suffered a stroke and fell in her home, was suspicious. As a probationary employee, Mader could've been fired for any reason. Radley Balko at the Washington Post says he "should have been given a medal."
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
Kudos to the officer for not giving the guy the suicide-by-cop he was so intent on. Rob could probably give good insight/real life examples into this sort of situation.
 

REVerse °

Addicted Member
I had a friend that decided to die this way. He and his wife had separated and it was more than he could emotionally handle. He was caught speeding in NY, got out of his car, clasped his hands together in a manner that appeared like he was pointing a small gun in the direction of the officer. That's all it took. Brian was gunned down. I see his wife occasionally when she visits here, but it is never the same. I can't look at her the same as before. She didn't make him do it, but he reportedly told her he was going to kill himself. She made no effort to show compassion and didn't have to, I suppose. Every time I drive though the county and see some of his outstanding masonry work- the memories return. Brian is gone and it is no ones fault but his own.
 

Robadat

Member
Kudos to the officer for not giving the guy the suicide-by-cop he was so intent on. Rob could probably give good insight/real life examples into this sort of situation.
As a firearms instructor, you teach recruits that the only person who can tell you to shoot is yourself. This officer made the conscious decision to not fire because he felt it was not his last option to do so. Without video, I can't really say he should or shouldn't have. Truthfully, I don't know what I would have done if I was in his position. The officer felt in his heart this guy wasn't going to harm anyone other than himself. After an investigation it seems he was correct, as the gun was not loaded. It appears this was what his gut instinct told him it was, a "suicide by cop" encounter. He was not wrong in his assessment of the situation.

He was on the scene before the other officers, he had spoken to and gotten a response from the man, the others did not so their perception of the encounter was completely different from his. They were working with a different set of circumstances. All three officers were not in the wrong in the actions each took.

The other option was that he ends up shooting an unarmed person. Myself, I don't believe I could live with myself if I did that no matter the circumstances.
 

Greg T.

The Jizz Slinger
As a firearms instructor, you teach recruits that the only person who can tell you to shoot is yourself. This officer made the conscious decision to not fire because he felt it was not his last option to do so. Without video, I can't really say he should or shouldn't have. Truthfully, I don't know what I would have done if I was in his position. The officer felt in his heart this guy wasn't going to harm anyone other than himself. After an investigation it seems he was correct, as the gun was not loaded. It appears this was what his gut instinct told him it was, a "suicide by cop" encounter. He was not wrong in his assessment of the situation.

He was on the scene before the other officers, he had spoken to and gotten a response from the man, the others did not so their perception of the encounter was completely different from his. They were working with a different set of circumstances. All three officers were not in the wrong in the actions each took.

The other option was that he ends up shooting an unarmed person. Myself, I don't believe I could live with myself if I did that no matter the circumstances.
This is a circumstance where he's fucked either way. He's fired and being run over the coals now because he didn't do his job. Had he fired, he would have been placed on suspension and raked over the coals for firing on an unarmed man. NOBODY has to make more split second decisions than a cop. I do NOT envy them in the least, and I am not sure I could handle that stress day in and day out. My sincere appreciation goes out to every LEO across the country.
 

Robadat

Member
This is a circumstance where he's fucked either way. He's fired and being run over the coals now because he didn't do his job. Had he fired, he would have been placed on suspension and raked over the coals for firing on an unarmed man. NOBODY has to make more split second decisions than a cop. I do NOT envy them in the least, and I am not sure I could handle that stress day in and day out. My sincere appreciation goes out to every LEO across the country.
I have to disagree with his firing from the job. He made a decision based on the circumstances presented to him and his judgement turned out to be 100% correct. The man was not a danger to anyone other than himself.

The flip side of the coin is what does this decision tell other cops and the general public? To shoot first and ask questions later? Sorry, but I'm just not wired to do that. I have to know in my heart and soul that I have no other option than to shoot someone before I pull that trigger.
 

Greg T.

The Jizz Slinger
I have to disagree with his firing from the job. He made a decision based on the circumstances presented to him and his judgement turned out to be 100% correct. The man was not a danger to anyone other than himself.

The flip side of the coin is what does this decision tell other cops and the general public? To shoot first and ask questions later? Sorry, but I'm just not wired to do that. I have to know in my heart and soul that I have no other option than to shoot someone before I pull that trigger.
Agreed. And that's why I say he'd have been fucked either way. The media will roast him regardless of what he did and why.
 

JLS

Member
Well one thing is for sure...he is not qualified to be a Chicago Police Officer...

They shoot first, then cover it up...
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
I think honestly if I was the cop in the OP I'd probably just find a new line of work. All the drama/media etc........I'd just start it over doing something else. A know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em type deal.........I think you just fold this hand that life deals you and move on as best as possible and be content....
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
I think honestly if I was the cop in the OP I'd probably just find a new line of work. All the drama/media etc........I'd just start it over doing something else. A know when to hold'em and know when to fold'em type deal.........I think you just fold this hand that life deals you and move on as best as possible and be content....
Considering the current environment, that could be a choice for nearly every officer in the country. The shame of it is, the last thing we need is to persecute the GOOD officers - then what will be left? That's correct, the bad cops that shouldn't be anywhere near a badge or gun. Nothing good will come of this.
 

REVerse °

Addicted Member
It is no secret that Bath House Barry wants a Federalized Police force. Bushy initiated the process by creating the Dept of Homeland Security after 9/11/2001. Not only is it illegal, but since when can you trust the Feds? The DHS should be abolished.
 
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