Thoughts on Charleston and liberal apologists...

Scolai

Active Member
I'm learning a lot about rogue generalizations as I scroll through my FB feed today. The horrific acts of violence committed in Charleston on Wednesday are, by many accounts online, solid evidence of endemic racism of whites against non-whites. Further, whites who deny that they are racist are A) ignoring their own latent racism and B) hiding behind their white privilege.

I've also seen people who are long on accusations and casting blame but short on offering solutions (beyond the call for whites to deny their privilege). The scariest allusion to a solution I've seen ranks up there with Orwellian surveillance a la 'Thought Police'.

At some point, we should remember that the acts of an individual do not speak for the belief of a group. The Charleston shooter's motives were his own, not those of an entire white culture. We wouldn't make such sweeping generalizations about other races or cultures based on the actions of individuals within those cultures.

The solution? That's a much harder piece, which is probably why so few people are talking about it.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
You know what I find interesting about the generalizations about white racism? It seems that other races believe white people meet, discuss, mentor, and actively work at keeping other people down. LMAO!

The truth is, unless I just haven't been invited to the meetings, white people don't generally give a shit. We're all too busy scratching and clawing trying to take care of ourselves and our own families to spend any time trying to hold anyone else down. It's not even a consideration. I'm just doing what I have to do to survive, assuming everyone else is doing the same.

So what do other races expect? I mean, I think it sucks people can be denied jobs because of their name and/or ethnicity , but I'm not in any position to hire people nor have any influence on that process. So what can I do? I'm not going to do anything that would jeopardize MY job over it (because let's face it, were the roles reversed I wouldn't expect anyone to do such a thing for me).

I think it sucks when innocent people are harassed or profiled by police due to their ethnicity, but again, what do you expect ME to do about it? I have no say in how the police operate. In fact, I'm going down the road hoping they don't see me running 10 over the limit, because then I'll really be late for work. Plus, all the times I have been stopped, never once did the officer say "Oh, you're white. Well, you're free to go!" Nope, I can only recall 2 instances where I got a warning and not a ticket. And I will say, I deserved every one (and a bunch more that were worse, but I never got caught). And yes, twice I was asked to get out of the vehicle - once by two officers, one of which had his gun drawn for no reason. I am not lippy with officers, not sure why they approached in that manner, as initial contact had not even been made. The one got out of his car gun drawn. I had vehicle shut off, windows down, and interior lights on (it was dusk at the time). They questioned me behind the car, asked to search vehicle (I gave them OK to do so, but they didn't). Received my ticket for 15 over (70 in 55) and went on my way.

I think it sucks that some people of other races live in bad areas and go to bad schools, or come from broken families that don't emphasize or value education. But guess what, there are plenty of white people that live that way too. What has their "white privilege" gotten them?

Speaking of "white privilege", I have yet to get my free hand outs, my "golden parachute" benefits at work, or any other benefit solely due the color of my skin. Nobody has ever said to me "shhh, keep this on the down low, you're only getting this because you're white". That just doesn't happen, at least not for poor to middle class folk. I dunno about rich folk, never been in that social club, probably never will be.

Finally, my biggest peeve about the whole race thing. I know there are a lot of great people of all nationalities, I've been fortunate enough to meet and know several from all different cultures. What I want to hear from those screaming the loudest is what they are doing to help themselves. Are they cleaning up their own neighborhoods, are they helping ensure both parents are in their children's lives, are they taking a vested interest in the education of their children so the next generation can have a better life? Are they reaching out, saying "I'm trying, but I need help."? All I hear is bitching and moaning, and finger pointing at the "evil white man". While I agree some really shitty stuff went down in the past, I had no part in it. I do not feel any sense of responsibility for it. I do not feel I have benefitted substantially from it. Perhaps I have, I only know my own experiences, but nobody has given me a free ride just for being white. I've had to earn what I have.

Both my folks are dead. The total value of my inheritance was insignificant. I make more in 2 weeks at my job (and it's not a high paying job). So while they didn't have much, (they were able to provide food, shelter, clothing, and an occasional treat while keeping all bills paid) what they gave me that had the most value is discipline, taught me respect and responsibility, and made sure I got through school and gave me a chance to make it on my own. Anybody should be able to do this, IMO. If your child is disciplined, respectful, educated, and still can't make it, THEN you have a legitimate gripe. So far, I've never met anyone of any nationality that exhibits those 3 traits and struggles to succeed.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
I'm learning a lot about rogue generalizations as I scroll through my FB feed today. The horrific acts of violence committed in Charleston on Wednesday are, by many accounts online, solid evidence of endemic racism of whites against non-whites. Further, whites who deny that they are racist are A) ignoring their own latent racism and B) hiding behind their white privilege.

I've also seen people who are long on accusations and casting blame but short on offering solutions (beyond the call for whites to deny their privilege). The scariest allusion to a solution I've seen ranks up there with Orwellian surveillance a la 'Thought Police'.

At some point, we should remember that the acts of an individual do not speak for the belief of a group. The Charleston shooter's motives were his own, not those of an entire white culture. We wouldn't make such sweeping generalizations about other races or cultures based on the actions of individuals within those cultures.

The solution? That's a much harder piece, which is probably why so few people are talking about it.
Endemic racism? I live in the South, deep south and I don't think its "endemic". Does racism exist? Sure. What about the black group that attacked the white family? Does that mean that racism is endemic in Black people? Nope.
 

Scolai

Active Member
I only tell you what I read on FB, Dj. Let me show you the post that really got me scratching my head:

A white acquaintance of mine on FB wrote the following:
If you are white and are angry when it's pointed out that we live in a white supremacist society (and deny that it is even true), please read this. Feedback on your unconscious investment in and benefit from white superiority is _not_ an attack - seeking and humbly receiving this feedback is the way you become an ally, willingly trying to give up institutionalized privilege that you Did Not Earn so that others can enjoy the same liberties you unconsciously take for granted.

"Racism is the norm rather than an aberration. Feedback is key to our ability to recognize and repair our inevitable and often unaware collusion.

In recognition of this, I follow these guidelines:

1. How, where, and when you give me feedback is irrelevant – it is the feedback I want and need. Understanding that it is hard to give, I will take it any way I can get it. From my position of social, cultural, and institutional white power and privilege, I am perfectly safe and I can handle it. If I cannot handle it, it’s on me to build my racial stamina.
2. Thank you.

The above guidelines rest on the understanding that there is no face to save and the jig is up; I know that I have blind spots and unconscious investments in white superiority. My investments are reinforced every day in mainstream society. I did not set this system up but it does unfairly benefit me and I am responsible for interrupting it. I need to work hard to recognize it myself, but I can’t do it alone. This understanding leads me to gratitude when others help me."
 

bbfreeburn

Active Member
I'll tell you a little story about racism. In about 1980 I was on my way to the state bowling tournament. 6 of us in a really nice van, tinted windows, fancy paint, etc. We were driving thru the center of the state, an area with a lot of Hispanics, and higher than state average crime. The driver (an ethnic Italian with skin a tad darker than most whites, and a big moustache) was pulled over. His window was down and he was clearly visible. When the 2 officers approached (one to the passenger rear, the other to the driver's window) after asking for license and registration the driver was issued a warning for "driving over the fog line." (anyone ever hear of a fog line?) To this day I am convinced that the real reason the driver was stopped went something like this; "what's that mexican doing driving such a nice van?"
 

Robadat

Member
FYI - Fog lines are the solid white lines on the sides of the road, their main purpose is to help outline the road in poor visibility situations (like fog or heavy rainstorms), they mark the legal area you can drive on. Perhaps your friend was drifting over it a little too often.

As to the OP, there is no doubt that racism still exists in certain groups, but I don't believe the extant that it is claimed to be is anywhere near what it actually is...the vast majority of people are just trying to make ends meet and don't have time to worry about how others are doing...
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
What i see in general is more disdain for the handouts and affirmative action that many African Americans get. I'm not sure that qualifies as racism, because those same people have no issues with African Americans who are contributing to society in a positive manner.
 

Greg T.

The Jizz Slinger
Dislike, disdain, and discontent are now synonymous with racism. "I don't like Mexican food.".........." You're a racist."

"I don't like Hip Hop." ........... "You're a racist."

"Thug" .......... "Racist"

yada yada yada..
 

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
What i see in general is more disdain for the handouts and affirmative action that many African Americans get. I'm not sure that qualifies as racism, because those same people have no issues with African Americans who are contributing to society in a positive manner.
... but people who feel that way about welfare and "handouts" are normally ticked off about all welfare recipients -- not just irked by African-American recipients.
 

Scolai

Active Member
... but people who feel that way about welfare and "handouts" are normally ticked off about all welfare recipients -- not just irked by African-American recipients.
I know it's true with me - I get just as aggravated by the white person in front of me at the store buying either junk food or steaks & seafood with their EBT card as I get when I see the minority doing the same. I can't help but think, "I'd like to be able to spend $600/mo on food and have someone else pay for it."

I digress, however. The conversation in the media is shifting a bit as I'm seeing people screaming for SC to remove their Confederate flags, hearing liberals call for the disarming of WHITES, and watching race baiters try to stir the pot of hatred even faster.

All of this because, in their minds, anyway, the actions of ONE IDIOT seem to speak for the entirety of white culture...
 
I know it's true with me - I get just as aggravated by the white person in front of me at the store buying either junk food or steaks & seafood with their EBT card as I get when I see the minority doing the same. I can't help but think, "I'd like to be able to spend $600/mo on food and have someone else pay for it."

I digress, however. The conversation in the media is shifting a bit as I'm seeing people screaming for SC to remove their Confederate flags, hearing liberals call for the disarming of WHITES, and watching race baiters try to stir the pot of hatred even faster.

All of this because, in their minds, anyway, the actions of ONE IDIOT seem to speak for the entirety of white culture...
While I agree 100% with what 9~ wrote, I wanted to comment on one thing here. Can you name one war where the losing side's flag was still flown? Why should the Confederate Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia (which is the one most people recognize as the "Confederate" flag and the one flown in SC) still be flown. And why don't people see the indignity it causes? Would it be appropriate to fly a Nazi Swastika Flag over a government building? Then why is it ok to fly this flag? This flag represents the pain, suffering and death of thousands on people....and not the soldiers, but the slaves who were considered less then human by those who fought under this flag. It should have been removed long, long ago. Whether racism runs rampant in America or not, keeping these flags flying is just that. Regardless of the color of the skin of the person flying it.
 

WAMO

Spanking His Monkey
NOT SURE HOW THE 2 FLAGS CAN BE COMPARED AS THE SAME. BUT THATS JUST ME. IF WE STARTED TEACHING KIDS TODAY THAT IT IS JUST A FLAG, BY THE TIME THEY REACH OUR AGE, IT WILL BECOME JUST A FLAG. IT ONLY BECOMES A SYMBOL OF RACISM WHEN PEOPLE SAY IT IS. AND I "THINK" THATS WHAT G WAS GETTING AT, BUT MAYBE NOT. AND IF I REMEMBER MY HISTORY RIGHT, THE FOLKS THAT STARTED THE FLAG WE SALUTE TODAY, HAD SLAVES.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
WAMO said:
NOT SURE HOW THE 2 FLAGS CAN BE COMPARED AS THE SAME. BUT THATS JUST ME. IF WE STARTED TEACHING KIDS TODAY THAT IT IS JUST A FLAG, BY THE TIME THEY REACH OUR AGE, IT WILL BECOME JUST A FLAG. IT ONLY BECOMES A SYMBOL OF RACISM WHEN PEOPLE SAY IT IS. AND I "THINK" THATS WHAT G WAS GETTING AT, BUT MAYBE NOT. AND IF I REMEMBER MY HISTORY RIGHT, THE FOLKS THAT STARTED THE FLAG WE SALUTE TODAY, HAD SLAVES.
Just like the n word.
 
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