How's that $15.00/hr strike
- Thread starter Greg T.
- Start date
AlwaysWrite
Addicted Member
I don't go to McDonald's more than two or three times a year, but the last time I went to a nearby McDonald's, they already had four such kiosks (to handle orders) in operation.
9andaWiggle
Addicted Member
The hard part is realizing at some point automation takes us backwards. Business and the health of the economy are reciprocal. Businesses need customers. Customers need jobs to earn money to spen at businesses. If every business automates everything, how will customers get their money to spend at businesses?
There's a tipping point... pure capitalism cannot succeed any more than pure socialism can. They both need some degree of the other to save them from themselves.
There's a tipping point... pure capitalism cannot succeed any more than pure socialism can. They both need some degree of the other to save them from themselves.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
And that may come to light as soon as these nit wits figure out that entry level jobs are not worth $15.00/hr.
Yeah but that is the thing the greed of the board of directors etc has driven everything up that you need it to be that way.
Example, someone has to do entry level jobs. unless they kids can work that stay at home, anyone outside the home own their own just can't make it.
A long time ago you could.
Example, someone has to do entry level jobs. unless they kids can work that stay at home, anyone outside the home own their own just can't make it.
A long time ago you could.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
The burger slinging, floor sweeping, dish washing jobs are for students to earn money for school or for someone to make a few EXTRA bux or for retired folks who just need something to do. Minimum wage was never meant to be a career and therefore, never meant to be a living wage.
Yeah, but that is what it has become....
Another example//
After high school in my home town you either went school or got one of the factory jobs in the surrounding area.
When I got out of school and was working on projects, I was at Ford one day and noticed that there were a lot of
old farts there. My contact told me that there are a lot of lifer's there meaning no one was doing the standard 20-30
and out.....
When you have people staying in that long messes with the job pool cycle and people are put in that position.
It was just high school when I was young, now it is even college kids now. They have to stay at home because there are just no jobs....
Between greed, and the number of jobs, the USA has worked itself into a corner.
Another example//
After high school in my home town you either went school or got one of the factory jobs in the surrounding area.
When I got out of school and was working on projects, I was at Ford one day and noticed that there were a lot of
old farts there. My contact told me that there are a lot of lifer's there meaning no one was doing the standard 20-30
and out.....
When you have people staying in that long messes with the job pool cycle and people are put in that position.
It was just high school when I was young, now it is even college kids now. They have to stay at home because there are just no jobs....
Between greed, and the number of jobs, the USA has worked itself into a corner.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
Enter NAFTA.... Democrats raising small and big business taxes....OSHA and EPA regulations so fucking tough they make it nearly impossible for a small business to get off the ground. You can thank the greedy democrats who have no idea what a budget is, envirowhackos who are so entirely arrogant they believe we're ruining the PLANET, and the nosey liberal NAZIs who believe they must control every facet of business. Now you have the world you just described. And what is raising the min wage going to do? It's going to make sure those min wage jobs are eliminated. Enter McDonalds, Wendy's, etc. where people will order from a machine. It could actually get to the point having two people run an entire fast food establishment if the automation went far enough. See, the idea is NOT to raise the min wage, but to make certain people have a place to go after their education. A place where they can contribute, feel needed and appreciated, and a place where they can draw a good wage, and have the opportunity to excel. What we have instead is a bunch of whiners, too lazy to better themselves so they try to extort more money from an already strapped employer. We'll have to see how good Trump in at blowing thru the EPA and OSHA, and deeply cutting small business taxes so that people actually want to work for themselves again. Time will tell, but I think it looks good so far.
True, but I don't think that is why they want the min wage, granted some have become complacent....
Like you said you have government, and business bull that forces part of the jobs out.
Also in the old days the average employee was out in 20-30 years they were 55.
At 18 you went to school, or the factory, at 22 you went professional, or the factory.
You worked your 30 years and out at 55. If you got married and had a kid at 22-25
He was 16 when you were 40ish. So by the time he did his "entry" level stuff to get him
through school you were coming out at 55.
Now you can't get out until 65, and some are 67. Then you have some staying longer than that.
That is an extra 10+ years that there isn't an open position for someone.
For every one person that stays past retirement age, that's one new job lost for a young person.
And more people are doing it.
Like you said you have government, and business bull that forces part of the jobs out.
Also in the old days the average employee was out in 20-30 years they were 55.
At 18 you went to school, or the factory, at 22 you went professional, or the factory.
You worked your 30 years and out at 55. If you got married and had a kid at 22-25
He was 16 when you were 40ish. So by the time he did his "entry" level stuff to get him
through school you were coming out at 55.
Now you can't get out until 65, and some are 67. Then you have some staying longer than that.
That is an extra 10+ years that there isn't an open position for someone.
For every one person that stays past retirement age, that's one new job lost for a young person.
And more people are doing it.
9andaWiggle
Addicted Member
I'm guessing those that retired at 55 had a pension to live off of until SS kicked in? That's gone now, and the government won't even allow you to tap your own 401k or IRA until well into your 60's I believe.
So on one hand, to Greg's point, the government has kinda screwed us there.
When I was younger, all the factory and similar jobs paid the same minimum wage as the fast food jobs. And there were a lot of adults aged 30+ that were trying to support their families on that wage. I don't know how they did it, but they all must've been doing OK - everyone had plenty of cash left over for smokes and beer.
So on one hand, to Greg's point, the government has kinda screwed us there.
When I was younger, all the factory and similar jobs paid the same minimum wage as the fast food jobs. And there were a lot of adults aged 30+ that were trying to support their families on that wage. I don't know how they did it, but they all must've been doing OK - everyone had plenty of cash left over for smokes and beer.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
My point, exactly. Min wage was as I stated earlier, and those with good retirement could draw a pension and then supplement the pension with SS. REGULATIONS and TAX CODES have fucked that all up. And another reason for staying on the job? Inflation. Shit costs too much now and a pension that is now taxed won't support anyone, unless they've stashed a lot of money and can supplement their own income.I'm guessing those that retired at 55 had a pension to live off of until SS kicked in? That's gone now, and the government won't even allow you to tap your own 401k or IRA until well into your 60's I believe.
So on one hand, to Greg's point, the government has kinda screwed us there.
When I was younger, all the factory and similar jobs paid the same minimum wage as the fast food jobs. And there were a lot of adults aged 30+ that were trying to support their families on that wage. I don't know how they did it, but they all must've been doing OK - everyone had plenty of cash left over for smokes and beer.
Right, and now government and business. Business has gotten rid of pensions, and now you have everything that the government is doing.
65 is the age without a penalty for 401k unless there is an emergency.
Yes Inflation for sure. There was a lot of spending beyond their means from what the guy to me at Ford. Guys had a house, a beach house, several vehicles, and the were working to keep up with the bills....
That's where business is screwing you thought, they don't raise your pay to keep up with true Inflation.
65 is the age without a penalty for 401k unless there is an emergency.
Yes Inflation for sure. There was a lot of spending beyond their means from what the guy to me at Ford. Guys had a house, a beach house, several vehicles, and the were working to keep up with the bills....
That's where business is screwing you thought, they don't raise your pay to keep up with true Inflation.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
If it weren't for regulations, taxation and affirmative action there be practically no inflation. Most pensions went away because of federal tax laws. Employers having to pay withholding taxes on pensions is just stupid. But the government counted it as income. That's why a lot of big business went to the bonus system, but when people get large chunks of money they didn't have the sense to invest it, or even just put it away. That's where the pools, boats, Corvettes and summer homes came from. And don't forget that inflation hurts business thousands of time more than it hurts an individual.
I don't get how affirmative action makes inflation go up?
If the person that gets hired has to meet the quota and is just (or more) qualified, how does that effect anything?
You have to fill the spot.
If the person that gets hired has to meet the quota and is just (or more) qualified, how does that effect anything?
You have to fill the spot.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
Affirmative action CAN impede growth and output. We have a large paper mill here, and I used to know the personnel director personally. (This was some years ago) He told me flat out that he was forced to pass by some much more qualified people in order to keep a quota of minorities. He did admit that some minorities were hired on their merit, but he stated the vast majority were there because he had to put them there. Under-qualified means less output, less growth, more time and money spent on training, etc.
Yeah, now I do agree with that. If you can't do the job they just shouldn't throw you in.
The company should be given the chance to prove that if given two resumes and the minority can't stack up, he shouldn't get the spot.
The company should be given the chance to prove that if given two resumes and the minority can't stack up, he shouldn't get the spot.
Greg T.
The Jizz Slinger
At the time I spoke with him, there was a 10% law. Well, that proves to be a problem around here because in Escanaba we have a "city" population of about 13,000 or so, and the total surrounding area of about 35,000. How many minorities are there??? In the city I would say about 12 to 15. The paper mill employes about 4k people. I guess they had to start manufacturing minorities!! And that is why it's no good. They had to take on some burnout drug addicts, alcoholics and jail inmates to even come to a fraction of what they were ordered to hire. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm calling minorities alkys and druggies. I'm just saying there isn't enough around here to actually choose qualified employees.
I had the same problem when I took the civil service mail workers exam. They have to give extra points to vets and minorities. Well, I scored a solid 97% on my exam. I was ELATED, to say the least. Do you think I was pissed when they filled the 5 openings without even calling me for an interview? You bet. I know one of the guys hired. He received an extra 10 points for being a native and received a total of 98%. And people wonder why our mail is fucked up?
Wow,
Yeah, it was another one size fits all type of policy that they didn't think all of the way through.
It has it's place, but it needs to be fixed as well.
Yeah, it was another one size fits all type of policy that they didn't think all of the way through.
It has it's place, but it needs to be fixed as well.