Not sure what to think of Millennials (Iowa caucus)

[9andaWiggle]

Dj, that is not a new phenomenon either. When my wife got her degree 18 years ago, all she heard from employers was "Hey, the degree is great. Too bad you don't have any experience."

The difference I see comes from home. Parents don't hold kids accountable anymore. Responsibility is not taught. Nothing is their fault, no repercussions for anything, and never told "No." They don't learn how to take a kick in the nuts from life and move on. So, unlike my wife who was admittedly pissed every time some asshole used the experience excuse to refuse a job in her field, she did what she had to do and took lesser positions to gain that experience and worked her way into the jobs she had previously been denied. I don't see kids today doing that. They live at home and whine and bitch about not getting what they want while crying about how unfair it is.

Life isn't fair, has never been from what I can tell. When I graduated HS, nobody stayed at home to live with their parents. We were all broke as shit, but we all set out on our own and did what we had to survive (holy hell, I sound old! ) Our parents would help wherever they could, to aid us in figuring out the skills we needed to get by on our own. I don't recall this total dependency on parents with me or my classmates. It boggles my mind why kids would want to stay with their parents... I couldn't wait to leave the nest and start my own, independent life! Sometimes it sucked, but hell, I don't remember any other time in my life where I had more fun (despite having no $) than those first few years on my own.

Naturally these blanket statements don't apply to all kids these days, but enough that it is obviously a trend suggesting a significant societal change.

 

[livespive]

You mean you didn't get a loan from your dad like Trump?

Dj, that is not a new phenomenon either. When my wife got her degree 18 years ago, all she heard from employers was "Hey, the degree is great. Too bad you don't have any experience."

The difference I see comes from home. Parents don't hold kids accountable anymore. Responsibility is not taught. Nothing is their fault, no repercussions for anything, and never told "No." They don't learn how to take a kick in the nuts from life and move on. So, unlike my wife who was admittedly pissed every time some asshole used the experience excuse to refuse a job in her field, she did what she had to do and took lesser positions to gain that experience and worked her way into the jobs she had previously been denied. I don't see kids today doing that. They live at home and whine and bitch about not getting what they want while crying about how unfair it is.

Life isn't fair, has never been from what I can tell. When I graduated HS, nobody stayed at home to live with their parents. We were all broke as shit, but we all set out on our own and did what we had to survive (holy hell, I sound old! ) Our parents would help wherever they could, to aid us in figuring out the skills we needed to get by on our own. I don't recall this total dependency on parents with me or my classmates. It boggles my mind why kids would want to stay with their parents... I couldn't wait to leave the nest and start my own, independent life! Sometimes it sucked, but hell, I don't remember any other time in my life where I had more fun (despite having no $) than those first few years on my own.

Naturally these blanket statements don't apply to all kids these days, but enough that it is obviously a trend suggesting a significant societal change.

 

[9andaWiggle]

You mean you didn't get a loan from your dad like Trump?

I wish! He did help with insurance on my car while I was in college, and bought my books. But everything else was on me. Wife's parents were the same (although she had to pay her own car insurance). Our folks didn't have much to give, but they did help out when they could.

She moved in with me my second year of college, and we made it. Neither of us was smart enough for full ride scholarships, so we both worked while going to school and took out loans. The work, in hind sight, was good. Kept us busy and especially for me, kept us out of trouble.

 

[Djarum300]

Dj, that is not a new phenomenon either. When my wife got her degree 18 years ago, all she heard from employers was "Hey, the degree is great. Too bad you don't have any experience."

The difference I see comes from home. Parents don't hold kids accountable anymore. Responsibility is not taught. Nothing is their fault, no repercussions for anything, and never told "No." They don't learn how to take a kick in the nuts from life and move on. So, unlike my wife who was admittedly pissed every time some asshole used the experience excuse to refuse a job in her field, she did what she had to do and took lesser positions to gain that experience and worked her way into the jobs she had previously been denied. I don't see kids today doing that. They live at home and whine and bitch about not getting what they want while crying about how unfair it is.

Life isn't fair, has never been from what I can tell. When I graduated HS, nobody stayed at home to live with their parents. We were all broke as shit, but we all set out on our own and did what we had to survive (holy hell, I sound old! ) Our parents would help wherever they could, to aid us in figuring out the skills we needed to get by on our own. I don't recall this total dependency on parents with me or my classmates. It boggles my mind why kids would want to stay with their parents... I couldn't wait to leave the nest and start my own, independent life! Sometimes it sucked, but hell, I don't remember any other time in my life where I had more fun (despite having no $) than those first few years on my own.

Naturally these blanket statements don't apply to all kids these days, but enough that it is obviously a trend suggesting a significant societal change.

While the phenomenon isn't new, its at a much higher percentage than ever. College is also much more expensive than ever. I graduate 12 years ago and even then, its different than it is now. I took out loans then. The same degree now would cost me 20 percent or so more. College is outpacing inflation.

And yes, I do agree that parents aren't making their kids responsible. No accountability. That exacerbates the issue. Even 20 years ago though, there were more manufacturing jobs. More trade jobs. So, whats a college kid to do, even if they DO hold themselves accountable? Its not just the slackers I'm talking about. I got lucky. I got a job right out of college in an engineering field. Some aren't that lucky, even with so called "highly desirable" degrees. There is still a huge cavern between employer expectations and the education level out of colleges and high school.

Nowadays some parents are working the system. They stop claiming their kids at 18 so their kids are no longer considered dependents. Then they can get grants instead of taking out huge loans because the parents make too much money for assistance but don't make no where near enough to send their kids to school.

 

[9andaWiggle]

I will admit college was expensive when we went, it is damn near criminal now. Funny, if gas is $5 a gallon they investigate for price gouging... but not for colleges, healthcare, or any number of other runaway cost industries.

But then again, I was looking through job postings the other day... there is no shortage of work available that I can see. Granted, not much of it is lucrative, but seldom does anybody start at the top and work their way down.

I suppose I have little sympathy because I've been there. We worked shit jobs to pay the bills, drove shit cars, and lived in shit housing. Each shit job got a little better until the jobs became less shitty. Everything else gradually got less shitty too. Now it's just a different kind of shit I deal with, but my 20 year old self would have thought my life now to be a cushy, filthy rich, dream (although I'm not filthy rich, compared to how/where I grew up I got it pretty damn good). It didn't come easy, and it took 11 years to pay off our loans (every bonus when we started getting them went straight to the SL debt). It sucked ass, but it has paid off in the long run. And I'm nobody special. So if I can do it...

 

[Good Times Good Times]

~9, I can already see you now sitting on the porch being the old man talking about how when you went to school you walked 10 miles in the snow.

 

[9andaWiggle]

Well, it's TRUE! And it was uphill both ways! We didn't have none of this fancy North Face snow gear to bundle up and be warm in either. We only had canvas tennis shoes for our feet, a denim jacket, and wore socks on our hands for mittens, and we were damn proud to have 'em!

 

[WAMO]

I DONT THINK COLLEGE DEGREES ARE THAT IMPORTANT ANYMORE. DR'S, LAWYER'S AND SUCH ASIDE. LIKE DJ SAID, THERE JUST ARENT THAT MANY OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE FOR EVERY GRADUATE.

 

[9andaWiggle]

I DONT THINK COLLEGE DEGREES ARE THAT IMPORTANT ANYMORE. DR'S, LAWYER'S AND SUCH ASIDE. LIKE DJ SAID, THERE JUST ARENT THAT MANY OPPORTUNITIES OUT THERE FOR EVERY GRADUATE.

Yeah, to GT and DJ's points, it could be starting to swing the other way. Something has to give at some point... businesses can't expect a marketing student to spend $100k to land a position that starts out in some cities around $35k/yr. That doesn't make sense.

Someone mentioned businesses taking more of a role in education. I've always thought college should be less about basics/core learning (should get that in MS and HS) and more geared towards on the job practices/experiences in the chosen discipline (partnering with local and national businesses). More like a trade school, I guess.

 

[WAMO]

THATS A GREAT IDEA 9! HERE IS A SCENARIO FOR YOU. I OWN MY OWN ELECTRICAL BUSINESS HERE IN DALLAS. I HAVE A FREIND WHO ALSO OWNS HIS. HE HIRED A 25 YEAR OLD WHO WAS IN THE CAR DETAIL BUSINESS. MY FREIND TOLD HIM HE WOULD START HIM OUT AT $10 PER HOUR. NO EXPERIENCE AND NO TOOLS. AT THE END OF THE WEEK HE GAVE HIM HIS CHECK. MADE LESS THAN $80 A DAY. HE QUIT. FOUND OUT LATER THAT HE TOLD A COUPLE OF THE OTHER EMPLOYEES, THAT HIS FREINDS TOLD HIM ELECTRICIANS MAKE GOOD MONEY. HE WAS EXPECTING TO MAKE $200 A DAY. I DONT GET TODAYS KIDS THOUGHT PROCESS. BOY WAS HE SUPRISED.

 

[9andaWiggle]

Wow. Electricians CAN make good money... just not in the first week they start learning the trade!

Two kids (guys) on our cul-de-sac are going to electricians school. They have classroom time (I think it's a two, maybe 3 year course) as well as on the job time scheduled around the class time. (I guess their company has to submit proof of on the job time to the state/school for the work credits to count.)

One has really applied himself and actually changed companies for better pay/benefits and even got a promotion at the new company in less than a year. I think he is really close to completing the classroom work and apprenticeship and is soon to be a journeyman.

The other has had to retake the classroom portions a couple times and has been dicking around, thinks about quitting every time he fails a test, and generally just bitches about having to do the grunt work, and claims the instructors are bad and everyone fails the tests. Interestingly enough, the last test he was whining about a failed test he said the only people who passed were ones that hadn't already taken it 2 or 3 times like he and the others who failed had.

Anyway, wanna guess which of these guys recently moved into his own house (even though it's a rental) and bought a nice, new truck, and which one is still living at home and can barely afford to keep his old truck running?

 

[Greg T.]

Greg,

When was the last time you went to college? That might have been the case in the 70's and 80's, but not nowadays. Considering that many colleges have a significant amount of foreign professors who could care less about American politics. Sure, the liberal arts department might be filled with Liberals, but that is a vast minority considering all the other programs out there.

What's driving the youth to liberalism (or even socialism) is the fact that the system beaten into them for years failed them, created by Corporate America, the middle class, and both Republicans and Democrats.

I'll be 35 soon, but I think I'm still considered Gen X. I see folks 5 years younger than me and I feel lucky that I'm not in the same boat that they are in. I'm in a boat where I can still bail water. They don't have the bail.

The only choice these kids have is to still live with either Mom and Dad, go get a different degree, or go get a remedial job just to barely pay back their student loans.

I've dealt with school teachers and college professors for the last 35 years. Two of my life long friends are college profs. Believe me when I tell you, the education system is cramming our kids full of left wing propaganda. They are failing to teach solid fundamentals but making sure the kids know about arabs and muslims. They are promoting socialism at every opportunity and putting out the least educated graduates in history. I'm 62 and I can tell you in all honesty that my 8th grade tests were far more difficult than the seniors of today. Everyone is so fucking sensitive about being PC and making sure everyone gets a trophy that students are walking out of school with an entitlement attitude. THAT is the biggest problem we have today. These 8th grade equivalent college graduates will one day run this country.

 

[MI2AZ]

I'm retired now, but about ten years ago while I was still working, I had to escort and chaperon some contractors that were digging a ditch for some new electric lights on the airfield. I could not believe that the guys who were in the trench digging were all over 50 and the guy sitting on the tractor was in his 30's. I asked them why they didn't hire some young guys to dig and they said that the young men don't want to do that type of work.

 

[WAMO]

THATS IT 9. MOST JUST WANT IT HANDED TO THEM. MI2, THATS THE OTHER THING. KIDS THAT COME UP THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN STARTING OUT AT THE BOTTOM AND EARNING THEIR RIGHTS.

 

[9andaWiggle]

I'll hand it to them... I'll give them a stripped white wire to hold in their left hand, and a stripped black wire to hold in the right hand. Then have them tell me if anything happens when I flip the breaker back on!

 

[livespive]

Depends on if the other ends of both said wires are in the breaker

I'll hand it to them... I'll give them a stripped white wire to hold in their left hand, and a stripped black wire to hold in the right hand. Then have them tell me if anything happens when I flip the breaker back on!

 

[9andaWiggle]

Here, hold these wires and we'll find out.

 

[WAMO]

 

[Djarum300]

I've dealt with school teachers and college professors for the last 35 years. Two of my life long friends are college profs. Believe me when I tell you, the education system is cramming our kids full of left wing propaganda. They are failing to teach solid fundamentals but making sure the kids know about arabs and muslims. They are promoting socialism at every opportunity and putting out the least educated graduates in history. I'm 62 and I can tell you in all honesty that my 8th grade tests were far more difficult than the seniors of today. Everyone is so fucking sensitive about being PC and making sure everyone gets a trophy that students are walking out of school with an entitlement attitude. THAT is the biggest problem we have today. These 8th grade equivalent college graduates will one day run this country.

I just don't see it. Maybe in the liberal arts departments. Then again, I live in Alabama. Its more conservative.

When it comes to public education, testing and teaching to tests instead of teaching subject is the biggest problem around here.