The elephant in the room; discussion

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
Another school shooting. Not to revisit the gun debate, because lines are drawn and we all know where who stands in this forum.

What I want to talk about is the root problem with these horrific acts. The weapon is easy to point to and say "Take it away and this won't happen", and that's a true statement. If guns didn't exist, nobody would get shot. BUT... what about the people who have engaged in these acts?

Does nobody care, or is nobody interested that despite all of our success as a country, many, many Americans are deeply troubled and extremely aggressive and angry? Why do we think that is? What failures are occurring in our society that make people angry and hateful, to the extent some wish to (or eventually do) injure or murder random Americans in these outbursts?

One thing I think the internet does do, for good or bad, is show us what people are really like in their soul. Being anonymous seems to help some reveal their true selves. So we look at comments sections, tweets forum posts, etc., and what do we see? A lot of angry people downright filled with hatred and contempt for anyone that doesn't think/believe as they do. Some are just kids/trolls looking to rile people up. But many, I think, are serious.

Consistently, especially in political discussions, the "opposition" is derided as being inferior, evil, not even deserving of life let alone a shred of respect. THIS is how many of our fellow countrymen seem to view half of our society! And it starts with many of those who are supposedly representing us all to work for the betterment of our country! How is that even possible when our leaders view each other (and campaign about their opposotion) as undeserving, evil scum?

America has no respect for itself. We don't, let's be honest. The left hates he right and the right hates the left, and both of them hate all the independents and the independents hate them right back. Respectful discourse and compromise are treasonous acts in the modern US of A.

Actually, we should change our name. We are no longer United. We are now the DSA - DIVIDED States of America. Instead of "The Land of the Free", our new motto should be "You're With Us or Against Us!"

Sarcasm aside, when we don't have or show a shred of respect for our fellow countrymen. When we have an abundance of hate and anger in our society. When we fail to teach our children right from wrong, how to behave in a civilized society, how to be strong, confident, and succeed on their own, how to have empathy for our fellow man. When we don't instill in them how to be proud of who they are and where they come from. When we don't respect each other for the positive things each person brings to our society... At this point, does which weapon was used even matter?
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
To be honest ~9, I really don't even care anymore. The reason I'm apathetic towards it all is that nothing will be done about it from a realistic standpoint. The NRA has such a stranglehold and culturally here guns are popular, I've just accepted it as a part of our American identity. Didn't Trump last year sign a bill into law rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun?
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
Here ya go (for DJ who doesn't believe in empirical, objective, non-biased fact).....

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-joint-resolution/40

H.J.Res.40 - Providing for congressional disapproval under chapter 8 of title 5, United States Code, of the rule submitted by the Social Security Administration relating to Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007.

Shown Here:
Public Law No: 115-8 (02/28/2017)

(This measure has not been amended since it was introduced. The summary of that version is repeated here.)

This joint resolution nullifies the “Implementation of the NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007” rule finalized by the Social Security Administration on December 19, 2016. The rule implements a plan to provide to the National Instant Criminal History Background Check System the name of an individual who meets certain criteria, including that benefit payments are made through a representative payee because the individual is determined to be mentally incapable of managing them. (Current law prohibits firearm sale or transfer to and purchase or possession by a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective.)
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
So basically, it's saying we DON'T want to prohibit firearm sale or transfer to and purchase/possession by a person who has been adjudicated as a mental defective.

I've accepted that my view is unpopular and that those with the popular opinion on guns are winning politically and am willing to let those who support the status quo be right without a fight, and I accept the consequences to our society. I've moved on to other debates.
 
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Djarum300

Addicted Member
I think 9 addresses the root of the problem.

People are angry. Kids are angry. Kids are getting bullied on Facebook. Parents aren't disciplining their kids.

I think we've lost our ability to function in society because of the internet.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
To be honest ~9, I really don't even care anymore. The reason I'm apathetic towards it all is that nothing will be done about it from a realistic standpoint. The NRA has such a stranglehold and culturally here guns are popular, I've just accepted it as a part of our American identity. Didn't Trump last year sign a bill into law rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun?
We've had the same gun laws for years. In some cases even stricter. Why, say since columbine, have we had these mass shootings.

Like Longmire says, what's the motive?
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
We've had the same gun laws for years. In some cases even stricter. Why, say since columbine, have we had these mass shootings.

Like Longmire says, what's the motive?
I don't know, they're mad bro, but the whack jobs (err "mentally deficient") have just as much right to a weapon as anyone, legally speaking. Accept it or you're a fuckin' leftist commie.
 

Djarum300

Addicted Member
I don't know, they're mad bro, but the whack jobs (err "mentally deficient") have just as much right to a weapon as anyone, legally speaking. Accept it or you're a fuckin' leftist commie.
I'm not per se against allowing gun sales to mentally unstable peoolp. But that's a damn slippery slope. Someone goes to a grief counselor and now can't buy a gun? A couple goes to marriage counseling and now can't buy a gun?

I think what's happened is a huge shift in culture. Two generations ago you had a large population that faught in a war. Baby boomers we're heavily influenced by the culture of tight family communities, which at times meant some stayed unhappy or museramis because that was the way it was.

Now people get angry and mad due to anonymity and seeing everyone else on facebook as having a better life. They are either driven into depression or violence.

And everyone takes part. It's all about keeping up with the Joneses. Being happy and living the American dream, right?

I long since said fuck the Jones. Instead of all the shiny things on Facebook, we'd be much better off if people paid attention to their own wants and needs, work hard, better themselves, and build relationships that are worth building that will last
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
I'm not per se against allowing gun sales to mentally unstable peoolp. But that's a damn slippery slope. Someone goes to a grief counselor and now can't buy a gun? A couple goes to marriage counseling and now can't buy a gun?

I think what's happened is a huge shift in culture. Two generations ago you had a large population that faught in a war. Baby boomers we're heavily influenced by the culture of tight family communities, which at times meant some stayed unhappy or museramis because that was the way it was.

Now people get angry and mad due to anonymity and seeing everyone else on facebook as having a better life. They are either driven into depression or violence.

And everyone takes part. It's all about keeping up with the Joneses. Being happy and living the American dream, right?

I long since said fuck the Jones. Instead of all the shiny things on Facebook, we'd be much better off if people paid attention to their own wants and needs, work hard, better themselves, and build relationships that are worth building that will last
The only thing I can say is I'm debt free except for my house. Cars paid off, money in savings, CC balance at $0, money saving for retirement........I should be an example some would want to follow. However, I guess that pisses repressed people off, I don't know.

But regardless, give everyone guns because they all have a constitutional right to them, I honestly don't give a fuck anymore. This is a settled issue. There is no problem. Just tell the angry/imbalanced people to talk to someone.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
I don't think review of weapon regulation is unreasonable. And I had missed the rollback of that initiative. Can't say I agree with allowing someone whose triggered a red flag for mental instability to legally purchase a gun without at bare minimum some extra psychological testing.

It's funny... On one side profiling based on race is wrong, but profiling based on mental instability is OK. On the other side, profiling based on race is fine, but profiling based on mental instability is wrong. It's kinda like abortion vs. death penalty. On one side, abortion is fine but court ordered killing of convicted adults is not.On the other side, abortion is not OK but court ordered killing of convicted adilts is fine. It's kinda absurd to me how similar the stances are, but with minor twists.
 

Good Times Good Times

Active Member
I don't think review of weapon regulation is unreasonable. And I had missed the rollback of that initiative. Can't say I agree with allowing someone whose triggered a red flag for mental instability to legally purchase a gun without at bare minimum some extra psychological testing.
Does it matter what we think? This trend is going to continue and nothing is going to be done about it.

It's funny... On one side profiling based on race is wrong, but profiling based on mental instability is OK.
Being a certain race isn't dangerous, mentally unhinged people are.

On the other side, profiling based on race is fine, but profiling based on mental instability is wrong.
Yeah, unfortunately that is fine in some worlds.

It's kinda like abortion vs. death penalty. On one side, abortion is fine but court ordered killing of convicted adults is not.On the other side, abortion is not OK but court ordered killing of convicted adilts is fine. It's kinda absurd to me how similar the stances are, but with minor twists.
I've always been pro-life personally and couldn't imagine abortion. I do believe it should be legal, safe and exceptionally rare. Again, I'm PERSONALLY pro-life, but politically I'm pro-choice b/c I don't feel I get to have a say in a case where a 12 year old is raped and doesn't want to carry to term. I'm pro-it's none of my fucking business. Who the fuck am I to have an opinion/voice on that situation?

With regard to the death penalty.....well, a consenting adult to murder should get murdered back. Who the fuck am I on that situation? The judicial system.
 

livespive

Well-Known Member
Kids are soft today....

They are just weak. They have been given everything, their parents are scared of them,
so when they hit a real issue they don't know how to deal with it and go all video game on people.

As far as gun control, you can try to tighten it up as much as you want, but if I want to shoot someone, I'm gonna shoot them....
and if I can't find a gun, I'll bring a knife and stab the person that I am pissed off at and anyone that gets in my way.

This guy here got expelled from the school, so even if he didn't have a gun, from the way people described him, he was going to do something.........

Just like the NV shooting, the guy had explosives in the car. What does a gun ban do against explosives???

Gun rules simple:

1. If you have a felony NO GUN.
2. If you have taken meds for mental problems NO GUN.
3. If you have been to the doctor for mental issues NO GUN.

In any of the 3 cases there s the possibility for someone to snap. If you look at most of the shootings they fall in one of the 3.
If it turns out that someone causes violence (for youngsters) and it turns out that they have been getting bullied then the family should be held responsible, especially if they have been told about their child.

I think 9 addresses the root of the problem.

People are angry. Kids are angry. Kids are getting bullied on Facebook. Parents aren't disciplining their kids.

I think we've lost our ability to function in society because of the internet.
 

9andaWiggle

Addicted Member
Kids are soft today....

They are just weak. They have been given everything, their parents are scared of them,
so when they hit a real issue they don't know how to deal with it and go all video game on people.

As far as gun control, you can try to tighten it up as much as you want, but if I want to shoot someone, I'm gonna shoot them....
and if I can't find a gun, I'll bring a knife and stab the person that I am pissed off at and anyone that gets in my way.

This guy here got expelled from the school, so even if he didn't have a gun, from the way people described him, he was going to do something.........

Just like the NV shooting, the guy had explosives in the car. What does a gun ban do against explosives???

Gun rules simple:

1. If you have a felony NO GUN.
2. If you have taken meds for mental problems NO GUN.
3. If you have been to the doctor for mental issues NO GUN.

In any of the 3 cases there s the possibility for someone to snap. If you look at most of the shootings they fall in one of the 3.
If it turns out that someone causes violence (for youngsters) and it turns out that they have been getting bullied then the family should be held responsible, especially if they have been told about their child.
For #1, I think any conviction of assault should = no gun. Or at least some kind of restriction before acquiring one/getting them back depending on severity of the charge/circumstance.

If you're the type going out looking for and getting into fights, maybe you shouldn't readily have access to a gun.
 

AlwaysWrite

Addicted Member
It's funny... On one side profiling based on race is wrong, but profiling based on mental instability is OK. On the other side, profiling based on race is fine, but profiling based on mental instability is wrong. It's kinda like abortion vs. death penalty. On one side, abortion is fine but court ordered killing of convicted adults is not.On the other side, abortion is not OK but court ordered killing of convicted adilts is fine. It's kinda absurd to me how similar the stances are, but with minor twists.
Dear 9andaWiggle:

Such "profiling" and stances with regard to death are, indeed, "kinda absurd."

[By the way, you did a fine job presenting your thought-provoking statements in your original post.]
 
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