The elephant in the room; discussion

[livespive]

Ding Ding Ding,

Give that man a Fry on FRYDAY!!!!

Why not apply to same ban to police officers that wrongfully shoot someone??
Was it a mental defect? They didn't handle it the correct way, so were they not in their right mind?

Where does it stop?
Were should it start?

It's not a we win you lose (or vice versa) argument, to me. My problem with the "ban the guns" movement is that I honestly feel it is a knee jerk reaction with a utopian pipe dream that will ultimately fail to solve the problem, because the human element is much more complex than the mechanical.

Removing all guns from earth is not possible. That is why I call it a utopian pipe dream. Sure, if no guns existed, nobody would ever be shot. But the cat has been out of the bag for a few hundred years now, and it's not going back in.

Not all, but a few of these shootings would have been prevented if current laws were followed. They weren't, and those failures in our system were made by the very government those supporting gun bans are looking to for protection! Our government has proven to be unreliable in following its own procedures for protecting people from gun violence - how do we expect any new legislation will make anything better?

Reviewing the "War on Drugs" - total failure. Prohibition (and I think any major ban on guns or repeal of 2A would result in similarities of what took place during prohibition) - total failure. Both of these government crackdowns, in knee-jerk efforts to save people from themselves by banning specific things instead of addressing the root of the problem (depression and addiction, also mental health conditions), resulted in a rise of organized crime that was very profitable and created powerful criminal organizations. Through these unregulated criminal organizations, people were still able to get as much alcohol and as many drugs as they wanted. I don't see how the government jumping in on guns in the same manner will play out any differently.

I'm not saying this to dismiss there is a problem. There is. But we cannot do what we've done in the past and expect a different result. If I had the answer, I'd give it. But a first step, IMO, is to look at the issue in total and formulate a multi-point plan to address it. The human element must be included in this discussion. The societal element must be included in the discussion. And of course, weapons (not just guns) must be included in the discussion.

 

[WAMO]

WELL SAID 9. BUT THE PROBLEM WILL STILL REMAIN. MENTAL DEFECTS CAN STILL GET GUNS. AS LONG AS THERE ARE GUNS, NUT CASES CAN STILL GET THEM. SO TESTING FOR MENTAL STABILITY IS A TOTAL WAIST OF TIME. PERIOD. AS FAR AS CLOSING FACTORIES, LAST YEAR THERE WERE 1.8 MILLION REGISTERED GUNS STOLEN FROM HOMES AND CARS AND FROM PERSONS CARRYING GUNS. SO IT WOULD APPEAR THAT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERS ARE SUPPLYING THE GUNS THE NUT CASES NEED. OR SUPPLYING ROLLO.

 

[WAMO]

BUT, I KNOW, NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

 

[WAMO]

AND WHEN THE A2 WAS WRITEN, IT DIDNT SPECIFY NO NUTCASES CAN OWN GUNS.

 

[Greg T.]

AND WHEN THE A2 WAS WRITEN, IT DIDNT SPECIFY NO NUTCASES CAN OWN GUNS.

https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2018/03/06/us/ap-us-utah-school-explosive-device.html

 

[WAMO]

GOOD FIND G. NOW THE INTERNET HAS USED THIS BOY AS A TOOL. GET RID OF GUNS AND THEN WE DEAL WITH THE BOMBS, GOTTA START SOMEWHERE G. BUT AGAIN, THE ORIGINAL A2 DOES NOT SAY NUTCASES CANT OWN OR BUY GUNS.

 

[REVerse °]

People are ANGRY. That doesn't mean they are all "nut cases." Anger left unchecked can cause violent outbursts of aggression. That kid should never have been allowed back in the school without some sort of mental evaluation from a legally certified professional that states he/she is not a threat to self or others. The unlimited exposure to violence on TV, video games, music, and theater has a tremendous impact on young minds. In many (but not all) cases- parenting is non-existent and children are drawn into a gang "family" for a sense of artificial security. Entitlement mentality exacerbate the problems. If government doesn't supply enough- steal it. Jails are full.

As one artist wrote: "God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy."

 

[Greg T.]

People are ANGRY. That doesn't mean they are all "nut cases." Anger left unchecked can cause violent outbursts of aggression. That kid should never have been allowed back in the school without some sort of mental evaluation from a legally certified professional that states he/she is not a threat to self or others. The unlimited exposure to violence on TV, video games, music, and theater has a tremendous impact on young minds. In many (but not all) cases- parenting is non-existent and children are drawn into a gang "family" for a sense of artificial security. Entitlement mentality exacerbate the problems. If government doesn't supply enough- steal it. Jails are full.

As one artist wrote: "God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy."

It"s what I've said for years. The games, TV, movies, and the fame given to these killers all work together to desensitize the young minds. When all they do is sit and play games where the ultimate goal is to kill everyone, and they awarded a "win" for doing so, it weakens the regard for hum life. And then, when someone goes on a rampage the news media make the killer famous! Then what? 500 copy cats. that's what.

 

[9andaWiggle]

Funny how Hollywood liberals all join in to scream for gun control, but what are they selling at the box office? The powerful, wealthy bad guys constantly wield guns. The strong, badass good guy is always taking down the bad guys with *gasp!* A GUN!! Explosions and killing galore... if it's in 3D the screen overflows blood from all the gunshot wounds into the lap of the viewers. But that's OK because the Hollywood Elite make tons of money selling gun violence to America. So I say these douchebags shoukd take their phony anti-gun rhetoric elsewhere! They profit more from glamorizing guns and violence than the NRA does!

 

[WAMO]

 

[bbfreeburn]

Something interesting. Prompted by Greg T's post about video games causing violent behaviour. I did a search on this and you can find as many studies saying that, yes video games cause bad behavior as you can that state that there is no link between the two. I would be willing to bet that there are a group of individuals who, because of some other predisposition (i.e. video + "X"), are pushed in the direction of violence by video games. I would also be willing to bet that not everyone would be pushed toward violence by video games.

 

[WAMO]

ISNT THAT PRETTY MUCH WHAT THIS WHOLE THREAD IS ABOUT? OR IS THAT SARCASM THAT WENT OVER MY HEAD.
SHUT UP 9!

 

[Greg T.]

Something interesting. Prompted by Greg T's post about video games causing violent behaviour. I did a search on this and you can find as many studies saying that, yes video games cause bad behavior as you can that state that there is no link between the two. I would be willing to bet that there are a group of individuals who, because of some other predisposition (i.e. video + "X"), are pushed in the direction of violence by video games. I would also be willing to bet that not everyone would be pushed toward violence by video games.

I'm not even proposing that video games are pushing people to the violence. I'm just saying that, for most of us older folks, we grew up being taught that all life was precious and should be cherished. But since the inception of violent video games and action movies the kids are becoming desensitized, and instead of thinking twice about lashing out, they just do it without any regard for human life. Walking thru a school with guns blaring is nothing more than a video game to them.

 

[Djarum300]

Something interesting. Prompted by Greg T's post about video games causing violent behaviour. I did a search on this and you can find as many studies saying that, yes video games cause bad behavior as you can that state that there is no link between the two. I would be willing to bet that there are a group of individuals who, because of some other predisposition (i.e. video + "X"), are pushed in the direction of violence by video games. I would also be willing to bet that not everyone would be pushed toward violence by video games.

I grew up during the dawn if first person shooter video games. Quake, Unreal, and the war genre Medal of honor.

For me personally playing those games, it was more of an outlet than anything. It was a way to take out my frustrations and anger as a teenager. I'm not sure there is as much a difference as a teen taking up boxing or karate or even football. We see now that some individuals playing football might be predisposed to violence outside of the sport. Should we stop playing football?

 

[Greg T.]

I grew up during the dawn if first person shooter video games. Quake, Unreal, and the war genre Medal of honor.

For me personally playing those games, it was more of an outlet than anything. It was a way to take out my frustrations and anger as a teenager. I'm not sure there is as much a difference as a teen taking up boxing or karate or even football. We see now that some individuals playing football might be predisposed to violence outside of the sport. Should we stop playing football?

Football is not condoning and promoting death. Although many NFL stars are arrested for bar fights and domestic violence which may or may not be contributed to football. Then again, we don;t know how many of them are gamers.

 

[WAMO]

RAMPAGE SHOOTINGS - EVENTS THAT RESULT IN ATLEAST SIX DEATHS AND ATTRACT WIDESPREAD MEDIA ATTENTION. SHOOTERS DO NOT SEEK OUT GUN FREE ZONES. LOUIS KLAREVAS, WHOSE BOOK RAMPAGE NATION: SECURING AMERICA FROM MASS SHOOTINGS, EXAMINED 111 SHOOTING ATTACKS BETWEEN 1966 AND 2015 THAT LEFT ATLEAST 6 VICTIMS OR MORE DEAD IN EACH INSTANCE. HE DIVIDED THE SHOOTINGS INTO 3 CATAGORIES BASED ON WHERE THEY TOOK PLACE: GUN-FREE ZONES (NO GUNS ON PREMISES): GUN-RESTRICTING ZONES (NO GUNS ALLOWED, BUT ARMED SECURITY IS ROUTINELY PRESENT); AND GUN-ALLOWING ZONES (CIVILLIANS PERMITED TO CARRY GUNS).
KLAREVAS FOUND THAT ONLY 18% OF THE RAMPAGE ATTACKS OCURRED IN SPACES WHERE CIVILLIANS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS. HE ALSO FOUND THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, OR NEARLY 90 PERCENT OF GUN MASSACRES, HAPPENED IN PLACES WHERE GUNS WERE ALLOWED.
"WITHOUT QUESTION," HE CONCLUDED, "GUN-ALLOWING ZONES DO NOT DETER MASSACRES."

 

[AlwaysWrite]

Funny how Hollywood liberals all join in to scream for gun control, but what are they selling at the box office? The powerful, wealthy bad guys constantly wield guns. The strong, badass good guy is always taking down the bad guys with *gasp!* A GUN!! Explosions and killing galore... if it's in 3D the screen overflows blood from all the gunshot wounds into the lap of the viewers. But that's OK because the Hollywood Elite make tons of money selling gun violence to America. So I say these douchebags shoukd take their phony anti-gun rhetoric elsewhere! They profit more from glamorizing guns and violence than the NRA does!

... and not only that, many of the actors and actresses are surrounded by armed security guards.

 

[REVerse °]

Funny how Hollywood liberals all join in to scream for gun control, but what are they selling at the box office? The powerful, wealthy bad guys constantly wield guns. The strong, badass good guy is always taking down the bad guys with *gasp!* A GUN!! Explosions and killing galore... if it's in 3D the screen overflows blood from all the gunshot wounds into the lap of the viewers. But that's OK because the Hollywood Elite make tons of money selling gun violence to America. So I say these douchebags shoukd take their phony anti-gun rhetoric elsewhere! They profit more from glamorizing guns and violence than the NRA does!

Yatzee!

Think about this- When you were a kid; what did you do after school? On the weekends? I PLAYED OUTSIDE! Woo Hoo! Bicycles, Baseball, kickball in the front yard, climb trees, etc. Nowadays, I very seldom see a group of kids doing anything that require athletic effort unless it is closed course. We live in a virtual reality matrix. Playing violent video games while sitting on the couch and eating junk food is the norm. I don't see the NRA promoting this lifestyle, but somehow it is their fault. The Looney Left seems to own the "Projection Card."

 

[REVerse °]

RAMPAGE SHOOTINGS - EVENTS THAT RESULT IN ATLEAST SIX DEATHS AND ATTRACT WIDESPREAD MEDIA ATTENTION. SHOOTERS DO NOT SEEK OUT GUN FREE ZONES. LOUIS KLAREVAS, WHOSE BOOK RAMPAGE NATION: SECURING AMERICA FROM MASS SHOOTINGS, EXAMINED 111 SHOOTING ATTACKS BETWEEN 1966 AND 2015 THAT LEFT ATLEAST 6 VICTIMS OR MORE DEAD IN EACH INSTANCE. HE DIVIDED THE SHOOTINGS INTO 3 CATAGORIES BASED ON WHERE THEY TOOK PLACE: GUN-FREE ZONES (NO GUNS ON PREMISES): GUN-RESTRICTING ZONES (NO GUNS ALLOWED, BUT ARMED SECURITY IS ROUTINELY PRESENT); AND GUN-ALLOWING ZONES (CIVILLIANS PERMITED TO CARRY GUNS).
KLAREVAS FOUND THAT ONLY 18% OF THE RAMPAGE ATTACKS OCURRED IN SPACES WHERE CIVILLIANS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS. HE ALSO FOUND THAT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY, OR NEARLY 90 PERCENT OF GUN MASSACRES, HAPPENED IN PLACES WHERE GUNS WERE ALLOWED.
"WITHOUT QUESTION," HE CONCLUDED, "GUN-ALLOWING ZONES DO NOT DETER MASSACRES."

Excluding government buildings, banks, and schools- Did we have gun free zones in the 60s, 70s, or 80s? This Klarevas fellow wrote a spin essay, WAM. What about an essay since 42, 43, 44, and 45? Juss sayin'.

Peace

Come to think of it in 1978- my friend and I got permission from the principal to bring a shotgun into the school for a project on gun safety. It had to be checked at the principals office first to verify it was empty and we were not carrying loaded shells. After preliminary checks were complete we headed to class. Afterwards the gun went to the office and stored until his dad picked us up after school.

 

[WAMO]

I THINK THAT WAS PART OF HIS POINT REV. 25 YEARS BEFORE GUN FREE ZONES THERE WERE RAMPAGE SHOOTINGS. COULDNT BLAME THE ONES BEFORE ON GUN FREE ZONES. BUT LIKE MOST ARTICLES, THE HAVES WILL PICK THEM APART, SO ARE THERE ARTICLES THAT THE HAVE NOTS WILL PICK APART. THERE IS NEVER A HAPPY MEDIUM BECAUSE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER WILL ALWAYS CALL BS.