NEW SHOOTING

[Greg T.]

Switzerland's crime rate compared directly to U.S. As we know, The Swiss have enjoyed extremely lax gun legislation.

Now, is 2008, someone had the brilliant idea to tighten Switzerland's gun laws. Here is a graph of how that is working out. Look at the rise in crime a couple of years after the tighter laws. The crime rate was steadily falling before the year 2008.

 

[Greg T.]

SO, THE GUNMAN TAKES THE MONEY INSTEAD AND GOES AND FEEDS HIS FAMILY AND DECIDES TO NEVER BE A GUNMAN AGAIN. OR COPS FOLLOW THE GUNMAN, BUST ROLLO AND ROLLO IS PUT TO DEATH. LOTS OF ILLEGAL GUNS OFF THE STREET.
TURN GUNS IN. INSIGNIFCANT NUMBER OF TURN INS? SHOW ME YOUR STATS. NEITHER ONE OF US KNOW A NUMBER. I WOULD JUST HOPE FOR THE BEST IN PEOPLE. YOU THINK THERE IS NO HOPE IN PEOPLE.
DEATH PENALTY. IF INMATES WALK ON THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE THEY VICTIMIZE, THEY LOSE ANY RIGHTS THEY HAD BEFORE THAT.
HITLERESQUE? REALLY! IF YOU KNOW OF A CRIME AND DONT REPORT IT, YOUR AN ACCOMPLICE TO A CRIME. AND THERE IS A SAYING, "SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING".
SEE, THERE WOULD NEVER BE AN ANSWER I COULD GIVE THAT YOU WOULDNT TWIST TO FIT YOUR POINT OF VIEW.
SO, YOUR TURN.

Fantasy world, my friend. It sure would be a terrific world if all we had to do was fabricate the perfect scenario and it all came true.

 

[Greg T.]

Look at the burglary rate. Notice the difference from before 2008 and after 2008. Remember, 2008 they tightened the gun laws.

 

[WAMO]

FANTASY WORLD SCENARIO? BELIEVING THERE IS NO HOPE AT ALL IS SAD.
THIS AINT SWITZERLAND.
WHAT ISNT FABRICATED, VIOLENT GUN CRIME ON THE RISE IN AMERICA.
FACT: 2016, MURDER RATE WAS UP, MURDERS COMMITED WITH HANDGUN ACCOUNTED FOR 71% OF THE MURDERS.
FACT: 2017, MURDER RATE HAS CLIMBED AND SO HAS GUN MURDERS.
STILL HAVNT ANSWERED MY QUESTION.

 

[WAMO]

SWITZERLAND - POPULATION 8 MILLION - 241 GUN DEATHS - LAX GUN LAWS
UTAH - POPULATION 1 MILLION - 330 GUN DEATHS - RANKED 50TH OUT OF 50 STATES WITH MOST LAX GUN LAWS
NEW YORK CITY - POPULATION 8 MILLION - 190 GUN DEATHS - STRICKTEST GUN LAWS IN ALL 50 STATES
HHMMM, DOESNT LOOK LIKE GUN LAWS ARE THE PROBLEM.

 

[Greg T.]

Yes it does. Our stricter gun laws are creating more violent crime. NOT gun crime. VIOLENT crime.

 

[Greg T.]

https://conservativetribune.com/arm...tm_content=2017-11-22&utm_campaign=manualpost

 

[WAMO]

SO HOW DOES THAT WORK IN UTAH WITH LAX GUN LAWS? YOUR STATEMENT MAKES NO SENSE.
STILL GUN DEATHS. PERIOD. AGAIN, YOU ARE BENDING THE STATS TO FIT YOUR DELUSIONAL GUN NEEDS.
THATS GREAT. TACO BELL EMPLOYEES JUST BECAME MURDERERS. THE BAD GUY NEVER FIRED HIS WEAPON. AND ACCORDING TO GUN FOLKS, ITS NOT ILLEGAL TO OPEN CARRY.
STILL NO ANSWER G.

 

[WAMO]

I READ THEM GT, AND YOU ARE RIGHT ON WITH ALL. AND LIKE I SAID, THE 2A IS THE ONLY LEG THEY HAVE TO STAND ON. REGARDLESS OF THE DAMAGE THAT IS BEING DONE, THE 2A IS THE ALL MIGHTY FINAL WORD.

 

[Greg T.]

SO HOW DOES THAT WORK IN UTAH WITH LAX GUN LAWS? YOUR STATEMENT MAKES NO SENSE.
STILL GUN DEATHS. PERIOD. AGAIN, YOU ARE BENDING THE STATS TO FIT YOUR DELUSIONAL GUN NEEDS.
THATS GREAT. TACO BELL EMPLOYEES JUST BECAME MURDERERS. THE BAD GUY NEVER FIRED HIS WEAPON. AND ACCORDING TO GUN FOLKS, ITS NOT ILLEGAL TO OPEN CARRY.
STILL NO ANSWER G.

This will be my last post in this topic. It's going nowhere when you talk only of guns while I'm speaking of VIOLENT crime, which is actually the problem. I've shown you various actions of violent crime as a comparison between tight gun laws and loose gun laws. In every case, the locations with tighter gun laws have MORE VIOLENT crime. Now, you can bend twist, or fold those facts any way you desire, but the outcome is the same. More guns = less VIOLENT CRIME. Plus, I'll give more food for thought. the majority of people killed with guns are justifiable via cops, victims, etc. Another smaller section is from suicide, and murder is at the bottom. I've given you various reliable sources, and picked them apart by burglary, rape, etc. In every case, VIOLENT increased as gun laws were tightened. PERIOD.

I READ THEM GT, AND YOU ARE RIGHT ON WITH ALL. AND LIKE I SAID, THE 2A IS THE ONLY LEG THEY HAVE TO STAND ON. REGARDLESS OF THE DAMAGE THAT IS BEING DONE, THE 2A IS THE ALL MIGHTY FINAL WORD.

You bet it is. Take a good look at history and you'll see why. As I have stated about 100 times in this thread, the first things dictators do to gain total control is remove private gun ownership. You may choose to be a victim if that's what you desire. Don't worry, when it get rough I'll have my guns to help protect you.

 

[WAMO]

THIS WHOLE TOPIC STARTED OUT AS ANOTHER GUN DEATH. AND I GAVE YOU DIFFERING COMPARISONS AND YOU BENT AND FOLDED THEM TO FIT YOUR NEEDS. REGARLESS OF THE REASON, GUN DEATHS ARE SKYROCKETING AT AN ALARMING RATE!!!! PERIOD. LATER G.

 

[Scolai]

Granted I didn't read this entire thread because, damn, you people are extremely loquacious. Nevertheless, I'm firmly with Greg T on this whole affair.

Gun deaths are increasing. To say they are "skyrocketing" is hyperbole at best. The US saw approximately 38,000 firearm related deaths in 2016. Approximately 66% of those deaths are suicides. Thus, there were about 13,000 firearms deaths in the United States last year. A significant number of those deaths (2-3000) are gang related. Still more are related to ancillary crimes (armed robberies ending in death, domestic violence crimes, drug trafficking, etc.). Other gun deaths include legitimate defensive use resulting in death, police shootings, and accidental/negligent deaths. Once all of that is removed, the 'gun violence' problem that isn't associated with other forms of violent crime amounts to less than 5000 people per year.

In other words, actual 'gun violence' affects approximately 0.0000154% of the population per year.

Let's look at some of the causes of actual gun violence:

• the stupid and insidious war on drugs, that effectively holds the people hostage to police and drug traffickers
• media sensationalism, which perpetuates the idea that gun violence is epidemic when, in fact, it is exceptionally rare in comparison to our population.
• a pharmaceutical industry that produces drugs that have the known side effect of creating suicidal and homicidal ideation (both during and after use)
• a culture of violence that seems to believe that a child who sees 80,000 simulated murders via TV, film, video games, and other entertainment in the first 18 years of life isn't indoctrinated against the effects of pulling the trigger
• the general stupidity of the average American, who blithely wanders through life expecting others to protect him/her from harm

Comparing the US to Australia is ridiculous, as Greg T has already elucidated.

Guns in the US are here to stay, even if there's a ban. People can 3-D print them or buy miscellaneous spare parts at Lowe's to make a functional weapon capable of creating carnage. Making ammo difficult to acquire is also difficult, given that anyone with a press and a bit of scientific know-how can make ammunition in his/her basement.

OK. I've said my bit. Thanks for reading.

 

[WAMO]

HEY SCOLAI! WELCOME BACK! GOOD READ.
CAN YOU NAME ANOTHER COUNTRY THAT HAS MORE MASS SHOOTINGS THAN THE U.S?

 

[Scolai]

HEY SCOLAI! WELCOME BACK! GOOD READ.
CAN YOU NAME ANOTHER COUNTRY THAT HAS MORE MASS SHOOTINGS THAN THE U.S?

I'm not falling into that trap. Your question is a non-sequitur in that there isn't direct correlation from country to country. There are literally thousands of variables that set the US apart from other nations as far as this subject is concerned, among them population density, governance, codified law, local and state control over laws, and variability in application of the law.

Another interesting question to ask is, "How many other countries have been invaded and occupied by foreign armies throughout history?" Let me help:
Virtually all of Europe at varying points in history.
Virtually all of Asia at varying points in history.
Canada
Mexico

How many times has the US been invaded and occupied by foreign armies? None.

You know why that is? Because the United States is fucking awesome in that our founders established in the earliest days of this Republic that citizens could keep and bear arms. Any foreign entity with delusions of invasion quickly realize that such a move would be futile as they would be fighting every citizen, not just our armies. The object of national security comes with inherent risks - and yes, mass shootings (while comparatively rare) are a part of that risk.

Were it up to gun-control/confiscation advocates, we would disarm our citizenry back to the 18th century, thus sending a message to the entire world that the US is abdicating its strength because a bunch of liberal progressives want to esteem themselves as more intelligent than our founders.

 

[WAMO]

HOW MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE UNDER 250 YEARS OLD?
CANADA? HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR AMERICA IN THE WAR OF 1812 WITH ALL THEIR GUNS?
HASNT WHAT OUR FOUNDERS PUT ON PAPER BEEN ALTERED AT VARIOUS TIMES TO "FIT" TODAYS NEEDS?
NOT TO MANY MASS SHOOTINGS WITH A MUSKET RIFLE. SO AT SOME POINT ALOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT THEY KNOW MORE THAN OUR FOUNDERS.

 

[sevenpin63]

WAMO give it a rest, you lost.
250 year's old WTF, war of 1812 really?
Quit grasping at straws, now you,re making yourself look foolish.
Or are you just trying to stir the pot?

 

[WAMO]

POT? POT? HHMMMM. POT!
A GUN DEATH IS A GUN DEATH REGARDLESS OF HOW IT GOT TO THAT POINT.
IM DONE NOW.

 

[Scolai]

HOW MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE UNDER 250 YEARS OLD?
CANADA? HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR AMERICA IN THE WAR OF 1812 WITH ALL THEIR GUNS?
HASNT WHAT OUR FOUNDERS PUT ON PAPER BEEN ALTERED AT VARIOUS TIMES TO "FIT" TODAYS NEEDS?
NOT TO MANY MASS SHOOTINGS WITH A MUSKET RIFLE. SO AT SOME POINT ALOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT THEY KNOW MORE THAN OUR FOUNDERS.

You're focused on the wrong point. This country has never been occupied by foreign entities for several reasons, one of which is the fact that the people are commissioned by the Constitution with the duty of protecting the homeland.

 

[Scolai]

HASNT WHAT OUR FOUNDERS PUT ON PAPER BEEN ALTERED AT VARIOUS TIMES TO "FIT" TODAYS NEEDS?
NOT TO MANY MASS SHOOTINGS WITH A MUSKET RIFLE. SO AT SOME POINT ALOT OF PEOPLE HAVE THOUGHT THEY KNOW MORE THAN OUR FOUNDERS.

Are you willing to surrender your First Amendment rights due to the fact that the founders could never have envisioned us having this conversation over electronic media?

When the Founders' works have been modified, it has been to include modern advancements, not restrict them.

 

[Greg T.]

Are you willing to surrender your First Amendment rights due to the fact that the founders could never have envisioned us having this conversation over electronic media?

When the Founders' works have been modified, it has been to include modern advancements, not restrict them.

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